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May 4, 2000

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Q/A Topics:
Women of Faith - Extravagant Grace, 2000
(April 28-29 at Spokane, WA)

Not wishing to stir up a hornet's nest, but I wish you would elaborate on this topic. There is something about these made-up, manicured, perfectly coiffed, honey-spewing ladies that gives me a massive headache. Maybe it is a guilt complex, I dunno. They just seem a little too good to be true. I was loaned a tape of some such nonsense a couple of years ago, it was far too much touchy-feely and not enough substance. Then again, maybe I just don't get it. (Wouldn't be the first time! :) Keep up your good work, PB!!!

[Editor: question submitted by a 'woman']

First of all, this is not intended to be a "complete" report of the recent Women of Faith convention. I wasn't there. But I did listen to a bit of it on the local Moody FM station that carried it "live" (in real time). A bit in the morning and a bit more around noon time on Saturday. This will add a bit to a previous item in the Discernment Archives. Having heard what I did, I realize the previous concerns are valid.

Let's start a bit "backwards" here. During one of the breaks, the station manager was apparently roving around with a mic in hand, getting reactions from attendees. Keep in mind, this was "live" radio, as it was happening, no options to edit and broadcast later. The same question was put to several ladies:

"So far at this conference, WHAT HAS BLESSED YOU most?"

    1st lady... "I saw my grade school teacher...[at the conference]"

    2nd lady... "I was so excited, I saw some people from my old church..."

    3rd lady... "..the testimonies.. the speakers have been through the same things we go through..."

Notice anything missing, for what is supposed to be a "Christian" conference? Nothing about "..God is speaking to my heart" or "..God's Word is being presented, and is stirring my soul.."

And no wonder! They had some little skits. Another lady did a dramatic presentation of the heart-aches of being "used", and feeling like she never measured up for simply being "who she was". Speakers spent a lot of time being comediennes. They spoke of their own life -experiences-.

There was a 'token' "Scripture" read...but even that came from "The Message", and the passage as read did not resemble, even to the slightest, what God's Word actually says in that place. [Ed: I need to get a reference copy so I can quote when necessary, but am loath to spend even a penny on such a perVersity!]

While a few useful things were said, they were not taught from the Scriptures. The speakers were talking "people-to-people". There was no sense, at all, that anybody was speaking as "God's messenger" to the people. It might just as well have been an Oprah show. And there was quite an affinity by some for the likes of Robert Schuller and Billy Graham, et al.

So, is it any wonder that the "blessings" were as those ladies responded to the query! If God's Word is not proclaimed, what else -can- they come away with! It's just a good time to be -emotionally- lifted. Like a lady said to me a few years ago, wishing her husband would go to Promise Keepers, because... ready for this? ..the men come back "all excited".

Not to mention their pot-shots against 'men'. At least PK teaches men to go home and be good husbands, love their wives and children and lead their families. But there was certainly a -flavor- of 'feminism' to what I was hearing; particularly from the one speaker. (I didn't write down any names, so I forget... sorry. While I was listening, I was also going about my 'business' around the house.)

Things a husband might do for his wife...put gas in the car, check the oil, get the door ...they said "they (men) don't think we (women) know -how-to- do it". What happened to... the man 'wants to do it' to be nice because he -loves- his wife..? There used to be a thing called "chivalry". But as feminism has progressed, many of them don't want the man to be a "gentleman". They are too busy discovering and nurturing their -own- "SELF-identity". They forget God's design, that Eve was taken out of Adam, and that the man is to leave father and mother and cleave to his wife and the "two become one flesh" (Gen2:24) They forget that "the head of the woman is man...for the man is not of the woman, but the woman of the man...but neither is the man without the woman, nor the woman without the man, in the Lord." (1Cor11:3,9,11) One complaint of many women (generically) is that they can't get their men to -do- anything around the place. But if a man truly does love his wife, and tries to care for her, as himself (Eph5:25,28), then he is accused of 'belittling' the woman's -abilities- to do "for herself". C'mon, feminists...whoever you may be... you can't have it both ways!

I could only -hope- that some bit of Scripture might have been proclaimed during times I wasn't listening. But based on those portions I heard, I wouldn't have counted on it.

So, ladies, you who love the Lord and are seeking to be a Godly woman; if "Women of Faith" comes to your area, it's a safe assumption that you can avoid wasting your time going, and don't become party to yet another entity of the "spirit of antichrist". (1Jn4:3)



Please could you clarify something to me. In our church there are poeple who are going to courses on the ENNEAGRAM, to determine what personality they are, and others around them, so that they can know their weaknesses and problems etc. Have you heard of the enneagram? isnt it of the occult?

Since I hadn't before heard of it (or -remembered- hearing of it), I went and searched at Infoseek. The first result was a site at "MIT". It appears to me to be purely "psychological". The kind of things that "head shrinks" like to play around with. It doesn't appear to be the same type of thing like the 'shakras' (sp?) of metaphysics.

However, having said that, psychology is man-based. It leaves out the "God-connection". It doesn't recognize the "sin factor". And I don't remember all the details of stuff I've read on it (it's not my main thing)...but at the very core, there is an occult connection with origins of psychology.

But these things seem to go in fads. Somebody hears somebody speak, and rather than following God and His Word, they follow the fads. Rather than obeying God's commandments, they look into "themselves". Rather than getting to know God, they seek to know themselves. And so there is this crazy sense of 'something' when they come up with these formulae to pigeon-hole themselves (During the 70s there was even a "christian" fad with seminars on how to discover your 'spiritual gifts' and know what it was) and it somehow magically absolves them of responsibility for their lives, how they live, and their confession/repentance of their "sin". Whatever they do (which their conscience actually 'bothers' them with Rom2:14-16), can be EXPLAINED AWAY as a "personality type".

You know, when I visited that site, I clicked on the "on-line test" by which a visitor could supposedly find out their own type. As I went down the list a few items I realized that I would not be able to score anything 'meaningful'. Both choices for given questions would be 50/50 for me. Sometimes I might be one way, at other times, another. And it would be impossible to give greater 'weight' to one over the other. And further down the list, the items had totally no relevance to who/what I am. And yet, answering these questions is supposed to result in some sort of score that tells you "what you are".

I certainly wouldn't waste my time with it. Hopefully your 'friends' will outgrow this momentary 'foolishness'.

I really do not believe that the enneagram gives anyone the 'insight' into my heart, mind, thoughts etc, and that it does not reflect the truth of my position in Christ - a new creation.

Exactly. Only Jesus/God fully knows us. (Heb4:12-13, Ps139:1-16)


Personality tests have been around for thousands of years, one can trace it back to Hippocrates and his theory of 4 fluids in the body. Present day tests stem from Jung and his mystical experiences, from that we now have three or four different "tests" out there. While it would be easy to simply to dismiss them, we can't. Businesses are using these tests (Myers-Briggs for instance) to determine one's place in the corporate system.

A big fad right now is "Learning Styles". Schools are using a variety of these tests to determine a child's "learning style" A Learning Style test is essentially some form of these psychological rubrics that will determine how a child is to be taught. It is an excellent tool to use to brainwash or manipulate a person's thoughts. It can determine a person's preferences and from that one can skillfully mold a person to how he sees fit.

I disagree with your conclusion that it is simply foolishness. (as with putting it on par with newspaper horoscopes), too many people in positions of power and influence takes these personality instruments seriously. Corporations for their employees, Advertising agencies to include in their ads (so they can target specific types) and schools to determine a "Learning Style".

I am not advocating an all-out assault against these tests, but we should not simply dismiss them either. Yes, in time this fad will pass, but in the meantime we cannot allow ourselves to be seduced by them.

Q/A -Emmaus and Enneagram


Homosexual 'gene'?

[Editor: The following answers an actual 'question' someone submitted. But there was just a bit too much 'personal' stuff to try to edit or modify for public consumption. So, here is -just- the answer. The question had to do with discussions about male cross-dressing, etc.]

Well, sinful mankind would like to find any excuse for his perversion -besides- what God calls it... "SIN" And if some "expert" claims he found a "gene", who is going to refute the claim? Well, God does. "Gayness" is condemned as sin in Rom1:27.

"Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolators, nor adulterers, nor abusers, nor homosexuals...shall inherit the kingdom of God." (1Cor6:9-10) What LITV/MKJV say as "abusers" and "homosexuals" the NKJV says "homosexuals" and "sodomites". The KJV says "effeminate" and "abusers of themselves with mankind"

In the O.T. notice what God calls an "abomination"...

  • Le 18:22 And you shall not lie with a male as one lies with a woman; it is a perversion.
  • Le 20:13 And a man who lies with a male as one lies with a woman, both of them have done a detestable thing; they shall certainly be put to death; their blood shall be on them.
  • De 22:5 There shall not be the thing of a man on a woman, nor shall a man put on a woman's garment. For whoever does these things is an abomination to Jehovah your God.
No...it's -not- "genetics". It's a matter of "choice". And people who engage in these activities are in gross rebellion against God. Against the "order" of things the way God created them "male and female". (Gen1:27) True, there are more "manly men" and others who are less stout. But men are men. And women are women. And God created them to be easily recognized as to their gender. And it's -not- the "index finger"!!

[Ed: for those who aren't aware about that last sentence, the latest stupidity says that those with "homosexual tendencies" because of 'genetics' ...male or female... have unusually 'shorter' index fingers. YaRIGHT!!!]

Let's face it... if they militantly refuse to recognize God as the "Creator", then, defying His order of gender issues follows along in that same rebellion. It is that which the world refuses to recognize... "SIN".


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