A Voice in the
June 27, 2002
--Paste-- 1) Edom and Amalek are Saudi Arabia (other prophecies seem to indicate Saudi Arabia will elect to withdraw from this war at some point). 2) The Ishmaelites are very likely the area of the Arab Emirates. 3) Moab is Jordan. 4) The Hagarenes...the mother of the Hagarenes was Hagar from Egypt, also perhaps the area of Sudan (Sudan also has a historical link to Ethiopia). 5) Gebal and Tyre are Lebanon. 6) The Philistines are the Palestinians. 7) Assur and the children of Lot are Iraq along with Jordan in a special relationship. This relationship can be found in other prophecies, and has already been demonstrated to be true during the Persian Gulf War. 8) The heading of Assur would also include Syria... --endPaste--I don't personally know enough on the subject to know which countries come from which. And, I expect by now...there's likely been some intermarriage, such that they are mixed together a bit, too. I've been under the impression that the so-called "Palestinians" are from Ishmael. (Notice RW only says "very likely" about Ishmael) But I could be wrong. You might check out at the website under Tidbits (2001) the "Israel: Center of Divine History". It's a long series. But if you do a word search within it under "ishmael" and see what it says in the context...the author of that piece says the Arabs (which, I believe, is what the PLO are) are descendants of Ishmael. And thus, I suspect that Esau is represented more by countries 'east' of there...perhaps within Syria, Iran, Iraq...?
Every so-called "expert" will give slightly different ideas. With intermarriage over the years from centuries of wars and conquests, I expect a lot of it is mixed up, and may likely be impossible to 'clearly' demark.
As for the wall...I don't know what to say. The thing I keep thinking about is how Gog/Magog comes down against "-unwalled- villages" (Ezek38:11) As I keep hearing about the wall, I wonder to myself 'what' sort of event or circumstances may stop that project from becoming completed...or once completed...destroyed again?
One thing is for sure...we won't have all the answers, until events unfold and 'happen'. Then we will know. Right? -smile-
When did Israel split into Israel & Judah?
Check out 1Kings chs 11-12
Just to review briefly: when Rehoboam became king after Solomon, Jeroboam, whom Ahijah gives a word from the Lord telling him he will receive 10 of the tribes when the nation becomes split, comes to Rehoboam along with a delegation, asking for an easing of taxes and such things that Solomon had levied on the populace. Rehoboam forsakes the counsel of the older advisors and follows the advice of the younger ones who tell him to continue being a 'tough' king. So Jeroboam leads a revolt and takes 10 tribes with him, which become known as "Israel" (and other names), and the remaining 2 tribes are called Judah, ruled by Rehoboam. The temple in Jerusalem is in Judah. And Jeroboam makes his two calves that they worship... "..the sins of Jeroboam, who sinned and who made Israel sin." (1Kg14:16) It is Israel that wicked King Ahab and his Queen Jezebel ruled over, where Elijah confronts the prophets of Baal with the burning sacrifice. It is Judah that has occasional good kings like Hezekiah.
Now, all this happened because Solomon forsook God, following all the pagan deities of his foreign wives. Some of these deities required the sacrifice of live babies. And he worshiped the original goddess of easter, "Ashtoreth, the goddess of the Sidonians." (1Kg11:5) Otherwise also known as the Queen of Heaven. (Jer7:18, 44:17)
Talk about 'consequences' for embracing a unity of all religions; and not being holy and keeping paganism away from God's people!!! Nimrod might have been the one who started (the spirit of antichrist) Babylon, but Solomon was the first apostate ecumenist leader.
"Therefore prophesy and say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel. "Then you will know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves and caused you to come up out of your graves, My people." (Ezek37:12~)
But notice what Jesus said about their traditions. They ask Him why the disciples "transgress the tradition of the elders" (Mt15:2) So Jesus asks why they "transgress the commandment of God by reason of [their] tradition" (vs3) In another place He says to them, "Full well you set aside the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition" (Mk7:9) And again "making the Word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down." (vs13) And when they claim to be followers of Moses, Jesus replies, "there is one who accuses you; Moses, in whom you have hoped." (Jn5:45)
As Paul gives his testimony, he essentially says that when he was saved, he was saved OUT OF those traditions (Gal1:14) Peter, writing to the Jews of the dispersion says, "..you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your vain way of life received by tradition from your fathers" (1Pt1:18) but through Jesus Christ. Paul further speaks of "..not giving heed to Jewish myths and commandments of men that turn away from the truth." (Tit1:14)
The fact that the Talmud, or any of their other traditions are not from God is clearly understood, when Jesus says, "For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me." (Jn5:46) But they did not believe in Jesus, but rather, crucified Him.
Just because Israel is back in their land as a nation does not mean they are yet pleasing to God. They are yet in unbelief. Another subscriber recently forwarded a couple of communications from a Jew they were communicating with. This Jew was proclaiming that blood was not necessary for salvation. They even went so far as to essentially suggest that the O.T. Scriptures could just as well be tossed out, because they speak of the death of animals and shedding of blood. And just about every Jew who writes something always writes "G-d" and "L-rd", etc. They do not revere God enough to address Him by name. And see what Israel is doing, as a nation. They are not being obedient to God. God told them to not make any covenants with the surrounding nations. (Ex23:32) And yet, they continually try to work on "peace accords" with people whose sole goal is to exterminate Israel.
Thus, it becomes clear why there is yet a time coming for Israel, called, "Jacob's trouble" (Jer30:7) This is why, before God can give them a new heart (Jer31:31-34), He must first "purify the sons of Levi" (Mal3:3)
They might be in the land right now. But they are yet in unbelief. Their Talmud is merely ONE indication of their spiritual condition. Please understand...I've never read the talmud. But it, being a printed representation of what Jesus condemned, I really don't have any need to read it. And if you read far enough at that website, you will see how they encourage people to read a page-a-day out of the Talmud. I wonder if they are as astute regarding the Torah?
Many groups have their own unique shibboleths. In Jesus' day is was sabbath. Today their descendants fuss about "YHWH". For others it's "KJV-only". For some it's Calvinism and covenants. Others, graeeesss. Still others, being "spirit-filled". They are 'shibboleths' because, you can go into any one of these groups and know that they are whatever their group is -by- their shibboleth. And an outsider is known to be an outsider because they don't possess the same shibboleth.
The fussing about "YHWH", "G-d" or "L-rd" is a shibboleth, and that is -ALL- it is. God never commanded such an observance regarding His name. He commanded to keep it "holy". (Lev21:6, 22:2, etc) When He commanded to not have any other gods, He did not command, "..nor shall you prounounce My name.." When He introduced Himself to Moses, He said, "I AM THAT I AM." He did not say, "This is My name, but you shall not prounounce it." This shibboleth is another one of those Talmud-like "traditions" which God did not command.
Think about it a minute. If anybody had any given name/s such as: John, Susan, James, Mary... would they not be insulted if you continually only referred to them as J-hn, S-s-n, J-m-s, M-ry? How do you suppose God 'feels'? Israel refused to utter God's name, but had no problem having the names Moloch, Ashtoreth, Queen of Heaven, Baal continually on their lips. These are the gods whose names they were not to utter (Ex23:13), -NOT- the name of "Jehovah". That is precisely why God dispersed them into exile throughout the world! And as they are collecting back in the land, they still maintain this shibboleth. Their hard hearts -still- have not learned! Thus, we continually observe that they are yet in unbelief. That is why their "time of Jacob's trouble" is just around the corner for them. After which, they will know the Lord; and you can be sure, then, they won't be using "-----" anymore; dashing out the Almighty!
Israel "at fault" syndrome
Since this Q/A is devoted to topics about Israel, there was another observation I had while going through Genesis recently. Something I had not noticed before. (I understand why the kings of Israel were required to hand-write the Law as they took to the throne -Deu17:18 Things become evident on a word-by-word basis, that we tend to often miss when merely reading-along. In many ways I think this VW-Editon project is as much -for- 'PB' as it is for anybody else who reads from it!)
Anyway, the original generation of Joseph and his brothers dies. The memory of the great salvation from famine-starvation is forgotten, as things are typically forgotten with time. And a "new king over Egypt" (Ex1:8) suddenly notices, Hey, look at all these foreigners in our land! They are multiplying and becoming "more numerous and vast" (vs9) than the Egyptians! They're a potential threat to our existence as we know it, and 'my' power.
However, the king does NOT 'want' them to leave. The option as they "deal wisely" does not include 'expulsion' from the land, back up to Canaan from whence they came. Anybody ever wonder 'why'?
There were two primary financial power-bases in Egypt at that time. What are "the Jews" taunted for today and throughout history? For their 'wealth'. Many of the world's primary banking institutions are run by Jews. And this 'tendency' began way back at the beginning of their existence as a people. Of course we know about how Jacob got rich off of Laban, in spite of Laban defrauding him 10 times. (Gen31:7,41) And of course, both Abraham and Isaac were extremely wealthy in the land of their sojournings. But have you ever noticed what happened to/for them in Egypt? All we ever remember is the slavery.
They lived in the "best of the land". (Gen47:6) And notice what Joseph did for them: "And Joseph situated his father and his brothers, and GAVE THEM 'PROPERTY' in the land of Egypt, in the best of the land, in the land of Rameses, as Pharaoh had commanded." (Gen47:11)
Notice the words I emphasized for our observation. Then, as you continue down the verses beginning at vs13, you see how, due to the severity of the famine, that Joseph buys up all the land for Pharaoh in exchange for the food he gives the Egyptians. And it says that Joseph "gathered up all the money" (vs14) for Pharaoh. And then, when people had given up all their money, Joseph "bought all the land of Egypt for Pharaoh" (vs20) so Pharaoh 'owned' it.
So, on one hand you have Pharaoh, the primary land-owner of Egypt. And in that context, notice about Israel in the land of Goshen: "..they settled on property THEY 'OWNED' THERE.." (vs27)
The rest of Egypt is going broke, and Pharaoh is getting rich off their calamity. (How many became wealthy during the US depression of the 30's, when most were in hardship?) And at the same time, Israel is becoming established as land-owners, also. Other than whatever the priests owned, Pharaoh and Israel are the primary property-owners in Egypt. The two major power-houses. And Israel is multiplying so fast that the Egyptians are "in dread" of them. (Ex1:12)
Perhaps this helps us understand the Egyptian fear and resentment over Israel's presence amongst them. But this was God's plan in sending Joseph to Egypt, at the hands of his brothers, "to preserve life" (Gen45:5) and to fulfill His promise to Israel to make of him a "great nation" there in Egypt (Gen46:3); and yes, His promise to Abraham to also make them wealthy. (Gen15:14)
Pharaoh's problem I believe is also our President Bush's problem. Money. Both houses of our congress have voted overwhelmingly on statements of support for Israel. I notice on various situations where there is a large audience, and some visitor that is "Israeli" is introduced and brought to the audience's attention, they typically erupt into big rounds of applause for the Israeli. So, why does Bush waffle so much with regards to supporting Israel? Because Israel's enemies are the very ones who supply us with oil...and if those oil spickets were turned off, our economy would nose-dive. So, Israel is forced to be in a kind of "bondage" to the world's super-power, just like way-back-then. Things haven't changed, have they! But God delivered them from Egypt the first time. And we know from prophecy that He will be doing so again.
So, anyway... Just because there is adversity in the world, does not guarantee that a child of God will necessarily be in need. "Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace (and also took care of Israel as He did), will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?" (Mt6:30)