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" Church and State "
    "Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not? Shall we give, or shall we not give? But He, knowing their hypocrisy, said to them, Why do you test Me? Bring Me a denarius that I may see it. So they brought it. And He said to them, Whose image and inscription is this? They said to Him, Caesarís. And Jesus answered and said to them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesarís, and to God the things that are Godís. And they marveled at Him." (Mk12:14b-17)

    "And he stationed the gatekeepers at the gates of the house of Jehovah, so that no one who was in any way unclean could enter." (2Ch23:19)

    "And when the tabernacle sets out...the Levites shall set it up. The stranger who comes near shall be put to death." (Nu1:51, 3:38)

    "Depart! Depart! Go out from there! Touch not the unclean. Go out of her midst; purify yourselves, you who bear the vessels of Jehovah." (Is52:11)

Recently, over the past couple of months, there have been a couple of documentaries, one on PBS something about "God and America"; and the other on ABC with Christiane Amanpour about "Back to the Beginning". The first one covered a wide range of history from colonial America to the present; the other delving into archaeological evidence for the common Biblical events such as Noah's flood, Abraham offering Isaac on the altar, and Joseph's "multi-colored" coat. (Even though in the original it says nothing about what "color" it might have been; just, that it was 'long'; reaching to the soles of his feet)

This article, due to its subject, is going to be about America. While there are many countries in the world that have national religions: Muslim, Shinto, Sikh, Buddhism, Catholic; whatever their orientation may be; it is only America where people call themselves a "Christian Nation" in the manner that it does, where there is also profound misunderstanding of -what-, exactly, a "Christian" is. And furthermore, if a group of people are attaching the label to themselves, how that is to be interpreted as it extends to their (so-called) "christian" -government-.

First of all, in the piece by Amanpour, among other things, she proclaimed how there have been at least three different ones called "Mary". These are all variations of the -same- goddess known variously as Semiramis, Isis, Astoreth/Ishtar, Moloch, Queen of Heaven, Diana, Libertas, etc. The most current transmutation of which is called "Mary" in her "christian" setting, is worshipped from Rome and celebrated with the mass. In her 'pagan' settings she is worshipped as Moloch (in the Bohemian grove), Isis and her various other feminist empowerment deities.

While there are many things we could address, limiting this discussion to a few basics should suffice. The way public debate addresses things like 1) school prayer, 2) public displays of the Ten Commandments, 3) the slogan "one nation under God", 4) the First Ammendment, Free Speech and the Establishment Clause. And related to this last item: Bible reading in public schools.

Before it was a nation with a Constitution and Bill of Rights, there were colonies, many of which were ruled by their local church parish; and thus, the pastor. Many of the colonies were of the Puritan religion; calvinists, armenian, unitarian, congregational, presbyterian, methodist, etc. They read from the Geneva Bible, Wycliffe and KJV. There were also Baptists and the Holy Rollers. Depending on the colony, church attendance was -mandatory-, and depending on the infraction, if there wasn't a good excuse, there might be punishment. If a person was of an independent mind, not adhering to the local church, in many cases they might be banished....not only from the church, but also from the community. They would have to move away and find a different city/town/community to live in.

The Church of England (Anglican), while labeled "protestant" was actually a 1st cousin to Rome.

When the "church" was associated with state government it was the -PROTESTANT- church. In 1960 when J.F.Kennedy was running for president, the big ruckus was because the Kennedy family is 'catholic'. It was the first time a catholic had run for the office. JFK actually made a speech one day during the campaign, addressing his allegiances: was he an "American", or was he beholden to Rome. Would a vote for JFK actually be a vote to move America under the umbrella of catholic nations and the Vatican? Such as....

When the various European nations were staking their claims to the American continent, the Catholic church often followed close behind, "Christianizing"...often at the tip of bayonet..."convert or die!"

Much of Billy Graham's "evangelism" during his early years was not so much to convert sinners into God's Kingdom, as much as it was to keep everybody good little -Protestants-. When JFK was running for president it was Billy Graham who was sounding the alarm. When Jerry Falwell had his Moral Majority he was moving and shaking to get Ronald Reagan into office, a non-communist. (You know: Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall!)

What I'm going to say next is from a background in which I am not a constitutional legal scholar, nor am I an expert in history. As I've explained on other occasions, scholastically "history" was my absolute -worst- subject...well...maybe next to "writing".

The problem is that christians have assumed, for years, that the Constitution, which was written by the nation's founding fathers to be a -neutral- document (equally for all religions, or no religion)...was somehow skewed to be interpreted as "favoring" them; christians. The laws were founded upon "judeo-christian" principles, and that the founding fathers were "christians".

-WHICH- "christians"? The ones who dab water on the heads of babies? The ones who pour pitchers of water over heads? The ones who dunk? The ones who teach that unless you've had some water get you (physically) 'wet' that you are not a christian? Ones who revere crosses, but are satan worshipers? For how long are you saved? Forever? Until you sin, and then you have to get "RE"saved? Are you at all subject to becoming minus your salvation, once you gained it, after purposely rejecting Christ? What did Paul mean by...

    "Now I exhort you, brethren, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all SPEAK THE SAME THING, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be completely fitted together in the SAME MIND and in the SAME JUDGMENT." (1Co1:10)
If there is "one faith (doctrine)" (Eph4:5) what about those who come up "some other way"? (Jn10:1) The ones Paul calls "accursed"? (Ga1:8-9)

Just as Paul says that not all Jews are -true- Jews (Ro9:6), Jesus also says that not all "christians" are -true- "christians". At the Judgment to those who have called out "Lord, Lord", He will be saying, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who work out lawlessness" (Mt7:21-23)

Is it the government's job to "sort out" who is true and who is not? Thus, neither can it presume to -establish- a religion. (1st Amendment) What religion would it seek to establish, with what doctrines?

Thus, also, what are they going to PRAY? If you have a classroom filled with many different faiths, -whose- 'prayer' are you going to pray? If everybody believes something different, whoever is not of the faith of the one -leading- in prayer is in disobedience. If the leader is not a true (Biblical) "Christian", for a true Believer sitting in the same space it would be as "idolatry" for them to bow to what is, in essence, a "strange god". It might be a classroom with everybody bowing their heads...oh, isn't that nice...everybody's "praying"...but somebody in that room is committing idolatry. To -force- "school prayer" is to do, in effect, what Rome did when they used to force people to bow to the emperor and proclaim his 'deity'. (And there were many martyrs of those who refused to bow)

Public displays of the Ten Commandments. While Biblical Christians might like it, what was the rule to Israel when somebody not qualified even 'touched' any of the holy things? When the nation prides itself on individual "freedom" to do 'anything' they want, as long as it does not infring on one's neighbor (You know: My freedom to swing my arms and fists around is 'unlimited' until it reaches your nose.)...and that "anything they want" includes breaking over half the commandments...to post monuments claiming adherence to God's Commandements is a mockery.

"One nation under God". Again...-which- 'god'? The Most High is not like the other gods. Rabshakeh tried to equate all the gods of the nations to Israel... "where are the gods of....?" and Hezekiah prays to God... (2Ki18-19)

    "O Jehovah the God of Israel, the One who dwells between the cherubim, You are God, You alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth. You have made the heavens and earth." (2Ki19:15)
The US capitol is built on the designs of Freemasonry and the occult. The "under god" is not the Most High.

No Bible reading in school? That which calls itself "christian" has been 'presumptuous' for many years, expecting it has the right and authority over pagans. When the pagans rise up and rebel against the Bible, they are not being anything that would not be -expected- of them. Who do "christians" think they are, expecting to force "down the throats" of pagans holy documents which they despise. Even Paul did not do this...

    "For you have brought these men here who are NEITHER ROBBERS OF TEMPLES nor BLASPHEMERS OF YOUR GODDESS." (Ac19:37)
But when they gathered around and asked, "May we know what this new doctrine is, of which you speak?" (Ac17:19) ...Paul did not ram the Gospel down their throats, but politely and courteously addressed them on Areopagus. (Ac17:22)

Is it OK to teach the Bible in school? Is that not what christian and parochial schools are for? Thus, they of like-faith can teach and pray the same thing/s together. Should a christian student be able to carry a Bible along with their other belongings to public school? Of course. Should a group of christian students be allowed to hold Bible studies on public school property, on their own time. Why not? And by the same token, then, the pagans have just as much right to hold their pagan gatherings. It's 'public' property. Do christians 'force' nativity displays on public property? Doesn't this fit similar guidlines as the Ten Commandments? I don't remember the exact years....but I think it was the 1800s "christmas" was -outlawed- as "illegal" in the (protestant) colonies. After all, with the designation "mas" it is known to originate from catholicism. "christmas" is -NOT- "christian"...by definition.

What about when the ACLU and other atheist groups make laws against christians? Well, aren't christians just getting what they had been dishing out for years?

What about when a christian coach gathers his team for a pre-game "prayer", and then gets sued by pagans? Well, was that a "christian" school? Was that a "christian" activity: ie where they preparing to 'worship' God, were they going to sing hymns and have preaching of the Word? No? Was that team even "christian"? No? Then, such a "prayer" was out-of-place.

Right about now, and for the last half of this article I expect half you readers are getting disgusted. What do you mean? We shouldn't pray? Well, where are we told to mix up our worship and 'share' it with pagans? We are told to keep the world -out-. And you mean to say you don't know how to pray but what you have to stop all activity, plop on your knee in a Tim-Tebow pose, close your eyes and swoon all 'pious'; as Jesus says, "to be seen by men"?

On a side note: You mean to say that Jews don't know how to pray without bobbing their bodies and heads; and thus stirring up the pagan guards on the Temple Mount?

    "but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God." (Ro2:29)
Certainly, Paul prayed in front of pagans in the middle of the storm to thank God for the food, which he had encouraged them to take sustenance. (Ac27:35) Paul prayed. They did not have a -joint- prayer meeting. He prayed -for- them, in their hearing. To pretend to pray jointly would be like Israel in captivity...
    "For there those who took us captive asked of us a song, and those who plundered us requested mirth, saying, Sing us one of the songs of Zion! How shall we sing Jehovahís song in a foreign land?" (Ps137:3-4)
Many quote, thinking it applies to America, nationally, as a whole...
    "if My people who have been called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from the heavens, and will forgive their sin and heal their land." (2Ch7:14)
That is one of the most misappropriated verses in all of Scripture. America is -NOT- God's people. Israel was. God spoke those words to Solomon. America is a land of pagans...always has been.
    "Now we know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone reveres God and does His will, He hears him." (Jn9:31)
This that everybody likes to label a "christian nation" is characterized by...
    "But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hidden His face from you, that He will not hear. For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue has uttered perverseness." (Is59:2-3)
So, when the secularists wheel a large plaque of the Ten Commandments into a back room of the courthouse, out of sight...NOTHING HAS REALLY CHANGED. The nation was never really following God's Law in the first place. With the plaque removed it actually represents the TRUE STATE OF AFFAIRS of STATE as they actually existed all along. There might have been a 'perception' of "Godliness", but it was a -LIE-! It was pretense.

Some churches complain when the government starts to levy taxes, negating their tax "exempt" status. If they are a -true- Biblical Church that is as it should be. Did not Jesus reason with Peter when the tax collectors came around...

    "Jesus anticipated (Peter), saying, What do you think, Simon? From whom do the kings of the earth take customs or taxes, from their sons or from strangers? Peter said to Him, From strangers. Jesus said to him, Then the sons are free." (Mt17:25-26)
We could keep up this discussion ad-nauseam, but there is no need. What it all boils down to is: WHAT IS THE CHURCH? Is it the building made of brick, 2x4s and drywall? Is it the place where the steeple, cross and symbols to the sun are perched atop spires? One of my favorite instruments to play is the pipe organ; but is it the building that houses that monstrosity to satan-worship?

How did Jesus describe the Church?

    "And when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, See here; or, See there; for behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst." (Lk17:20-21)

    "They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in Your Truth. Your Word is Truth. As You sent Me into the world, I also sent them into the world." (Jn17:16-18)

    "For our citizenship is in Heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ" (Php3:20)

And the early Church met "from house to house" (Ac2:46, 20:20) as they had churches (gatherings) that met in people's houses. (Rom16:5, 1Co16:19, Col4:15, Phm1:2) I challenge anybody to show me chapter:verse where the early Church built buildings. And yet, today when anybody speaks of "church", what they have in mind is a -building-. It is not. The Church of Jesus Christ is the -people- who have come to Christ...
    "according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit" (Tit3:5)
As Jesus said, the Representative of Heaven to the representative of Rome...
    "Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here... For this purpose I was born, and for this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the Truth. Everyone who is of the Truth hears My voice." (Jn18:36-37)
Thus, to answer once and for all...Is this a "Christian Nation"? Then, neither does it comport itself to Biblical guidelines, nor should Christians be surprised when it enacts unbiblical edicts.

Remember: E'brybody talkin' 'bout Heaven aint goin' there. (Mt7:21-23)

    "Beloved, do not be astonished at the fiery trial which is to try you, as though something unheard of was happening to you; but rejoice in so far as you partake of Christís sufferings, that when His glory is revealed, you may also rejoice with exceeding joy." (1Pt4:12-13)

Related Writings:

- the Christian's Citizenship
- 'Clergy Response Teams' and Romans 13
- the Army of God
- Which Church?

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